hi there,

as we have seen last month, averages can be manipulated. why not using regarding the total numbers of the PIPs???

that would not prefer any trading style and show a net RR.

so insetad of using the average losing and winning pips the system could use the total numbers for both and work with them in a formula.

any reasons why dukascopy does not wnat to consider this?

any kind of tweaking would be impossible or contra productive, because every losing pip would worsen the ratio and every winning pip would make it better.

P.S: you see right now in the contest for example user maulanarc opening and closing at the same time 2 pip loser trades.

I second that, averaging is never a good way to judge all types of trading techniques.

Total pips gain/lost is indeed a nice way to judge RR correctly, without need to program calculation of RR for each trade we take.

Good idea from skytrader, as it saves programming headache for Dukascopy and makes evaluation better with Risk Reward Ratio.

Why do you think they have a separate "pips expert" points then.

same thing in two columns? must be nuts.

Evaluation points should be designed in such a way that it should encourage traders to take better, bigger profitable trades.

Infact, it is this evaluation points keep the dukascopy contest head and shoulder above other contests where only return on investment is considered.

like this there would be no tweaking possiblilities anymore and what is even more important, the formula and the transparency of the evlauation could kept TOTALLY CLEAN and easy.

the evlauation would judge the efficiency of a trader.

we would also not need WIN/LOSS calculation anymore!

the WIN/LOSS parameter is a tricky one, it always depends and must be seen in relation to the RR and caoont betreated as a seperate indicator!

the same WIN/LOSS ratio is in a 1:2 RR strategy GREAT and in a 1:1 strategy for example poor!

with a calcualtion of the pip totals you would not need that anymore, straight and easy and transparent calcualtion.

add draw-down as a second paramter AND YOU ARE DONE!

no need to compare and calculate WIN/LOSS, because tweaking/cheating is impossible and you also see the NET EFFICIENCY of the trader!

I said this in my blog On July 31. All averages can be manipulted. Totals not so much. So, yes I am in agreement

i third that. of course, as always , dukas points have to made in a manner to be manipulated easily.

There are tons of ways for evaluation. For example, they should not use an average value of leverage, but a total leverage count. When you start to average anything out, it can be minipulated. Total account worth and pip expert work very well here. Run things in totals rather then in averages. It is really sad that DUK has to go to all this trouble just to keep cheaters from cheating. I really hope people do not do this in there real accounts. Averages do serve a good purpose to see what you need to improve on. But really, they cannot be used here since there are cheaters here.
Side note: A person can have a trade open for 10 days and only make 1 pip. Or like today, someone could make 300 PIPs in 5 hours. Dos that make the 300 guy or lady a scalper and the other non. I would pick the 5 hour trade over the 10 day trade. It is all about velocity= distance X time. Short time, long distance is the way you want to run your velocity. You only have 23 days.

[quote="rahulkghosh
i third that. of course, as always , dukas points have to made in a manner to be manipulated easily.[/quote]







You are such a leg puller rahulkghosh
I had to read that twice.

it would also be important to know what would be preferred by dukascopy. right now, as i have understood it, the smaller the lost average pips, and the higher the winning pips, the better the evaluation.

which clearly preferes RR ratios of 1:2 and higher. a trader who has 50 average losing pips and 100 winning pips probably gets a worse evaluation than a trader who has30 losing pips and 90 winning pips.

i really do not understand how dukascopy now wants also to mix the win/loss ratio with that, because the higher the RR ratio, the lower automatically the WIN/LOSS!

it might help with that cheat right now, but is this really the right solution????

a trader with an RR of 1:5 gets perfectly rich with a WIN/LOSS ratio of just 33%.

a trader with a RR ratio of 1:1 would fail miserably with only 33% WIN/LOSS ratio, so how does dukascopy want to egalize these logical probelm in a simple formula???

and if total pips would be used. which one is the better trader?

the one who totals 400 losing pips and 800 winning pips

or the one who totals 800 losing pips and 1200 winning pips????

both net 400 pips, but who is the more efficient trader?

how should this be evaluated?

which trading method is fitting more the expectations of dukascopy?

>>> if you would be so kind to pass this to victor! thank you.

trading is all about versatility and efficiency. therefore i pledge to develop this formula comparing total losing pis with total winning pips, of course not their net difference like the one or other short minded and totally unexperienced dude here might think, BUT their relation.

this comparison is a totally true net RRR (risk reward ratio) and it shows the capabilities of the trader, his efficiency and his risk awarness.

DUKASCOPY still can design the evaluation if it really prefers certain trading styles.

>> BUT, to be honest, I DO NOT UNDERSTAND why they should want that or why this should be a constructive thinking reagrading the future success of this contest.

active traders are the salt in this community. the community itself and also the number of participants will dry out if you reduce it to a positions trading style of contest, which you effectively do, when you give the most dukas points to the lengthiest trades, TOTALLY IGNORING that the guys who might have the lengthiest trades also will HAVE THE LENGTHIEST LOSER TRADES.

so, placing 15 trades a month and sitting in front of the screen and letting a trade go 200 pips in the RED, is that what this contest is or should be all about???

grandmas tea party makes more fun.

come on DUCASCOPY, you see the potential of this contest and you see the large variety of trading styles. dont limit your target group like this.

i mean, if i have understood it correct, the business model of dukascopy relies solely on the volume commission and is not market maker based like in 98% of all the other forex brokers, from which not one single is to recommend.

so, DUCASCOPY, a great broker, outstanding with a gorgeous platform for technical and also fast trading is trying to degenerate its contest to an old mans wannabe position trading elephants race?

THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

i mean, i made my 10 milion turnover to withdraw my prize money in february in 2 days or so. i made this with LOTS of ORDERS generating LOTS of volume commission. if i would trade with the lengthiest trades possible and use a correct MM and RM, i would probably still wait to meet the 10 million turnover requirment.

so please explain the reason why a volume commission earning broker should have ANY interest in A LOW TURNOVER CONTEST!???

i dont get this.

it definetely also makes not the slightest sense regarding plans there might be in the future... for example the FOLLOWER function and its effects.

i think DUKASCOPY should see its task while developing this contest in providing a platform for ALL SORTS of trading styles and display these with various parameters in the scoreboard or the traders contest-ID cards.

DUKASCOPY should search for real quality in the trading and THIS DEFINETELY IS NOT THE LENGTH OF A TRADE.

there are much more significant parameters. so especially regarding the follower function you should consider to make this evaluation point a REAL QUALITY MEASURMENT and not a TRADING STYLE DICTATORSHIP.

quality in trading gets measured by other ratios and has a lot to do with equity protection and RM.

with the quality measured that way the followers of a trader can select themselves which trader and which style the prefer. this will also make a difference to them. i am pretty sure not all of the potential followers wants to follow low activity.

the more you prefer low volume or low turnover traders, the more contra productive will it be to ideas you might already have now.

THINK ABOUT THAT!

i hope everybody has understood, that i dont mean the developers of this great contest with this statement:

"the one or other short minded and totally unexperienced dude here"

of course i am talking about my special friend nagaraja adiga who now has stopped his trading activities totally BUT still is hanging around here, to spread his pejorative talk about me in other traders blogs or to stalk every single comment i might make somewhere, like above, in this thread, where he calls me "nuts" because he does not understand the concept behind the proposed TOTALS model.

OTHERS DO UNDERSTAND THE IDEA!

Actually you are starting to get it. The answer is NO. A volume commission earning broker will never have any interest in a low turnover contest.

aha, you perhaps miss the whole meaning of the discussion???

exactly this is my question, why would it make sense to evaluate the trades in a manner that would favor low activity trading and turnover. exactly this is happening right now. the higher the amount of winning pips, the better.

so, keep your irony for yourself and try to invest it in some intellectual power to understand what i am talking about.

You didn't understand my irony, so I will rephrase my statement: You don't deal with an earning commissions broker. Got it now?

so, are you saying that despite the fact that i pay volume commission in my real money account and have narrow spreads and despite the fact that DUKASCOPY says, that they are not a market maker, they in FACT are a market maker???

i think this is pure conspiracy theory and it does not make any sense anway, because either volume commsission or additional earning due to spreads, if DUKASCOPY really would take the other side of a transaction, more activity and more transactions would again mean MORE TURNOVER and MORE REVENUE!

in this case, which i absoluetly DOUBT, they would earn the spread everytime an order gets filled.. so again their interest should be a high turnover.

I DOUBT WAHT YOU SAY. DUKASCOPY is not a market maker.

I don't know if you understand the notion of "market maker" because it doesn't necessary mean it's a bad thing as you imply. It's not something secret:
https://www.dukascopy.com/swiss/docs/ban ... in-use.pdf

“Counterparties” shall mean banks, brokers
and/or marketplaces and/or any client or partner
of Dukascopy or Dukascopy itself participating in
the transactions executed on the SWFX
Marketplace Trading System;"

I want to say it again that it's in the client interest that Dukascopy must sometimes intervene to ensure the best execution of trades.

Just like they say it in the Risk Brochure: https://www.dukascopy.com/swiss/docs/ban ... in-use.pdf

"The Client understands that the business model of the SWFX Swiss Forex Marketplace consists in ensuring
best execution for the transactions of the Clients and matching the transactions between any of its Clients or
Counterparties, each trade being instantly hedged with a countertrade. In that respect, on the SWFX Swiss
Forex Marketplace, Dukascopy is counterparty of each trade and counter trade. In some circumstances,
Dukascopy may not hedge entirely or may not hedge at all certain trades. In such cases, Dukascopy may
have opposite positions towards Clients."

I am done here. The above was me. Take care skytrader. I resign the contest.

why do you wanna resign? i hope not because of me asking you that question.

i want you to stay wilson. you are a honest and straight person!

i mean, you dont even have to cope with all this ill-narrated sick hater stuff, i find every minute in my blog if i leave my blog away for a while. or do you also get such messages and comments?

the missing notification system that must have broken down yesterday is a real pain! it also slows down communication in the blogs.

as far as i now it is not only in my account that it is not working.

regarding your other point:

okay, but, even in a case, where a lot of counterparts would be taken by DUKASCOPY itself, more turnover would make sense, wouldn´t it?

The above was quoted from FF forum. All counterparts are taken by Dukascopy. Is it clear now?