Dukascopy Support Board • View topic

adi · **User rating:** -

Hello,

the pip expert chart shows per million trades for the expert points, so please, can you confirm that the total balance of lost and gained pips is calculated the same for both small and big lot sizes, basically calculated irrespective of the lot sizes. Thanks

Contest Support wrote:

Guest wrote:

Hi Support,
I had read the rule and not so understand on the "pip expert" calculation.
Is it related to numbers of trade each month?

Can you quote some calculation example?

Thanks........

Pip expert is an evaluation factor which is to offset the effects of different gearing used by different contestants in their trading. It takes into account only the pips you gained/lost on a trade, irrespectively of the position size.
As you might have seen from the rules, each pip gained on the “base” EUR/USD trade brings you one point. Pips gained/lost on other currency pairs are adjusted to a common standard according to the pip conversion schedule (see rules). All your gained/lost pips are summed together. This sum is your pips score. Than all traders are sorted by this parameter and the leading 92 receive their “Pip expert” points in accordance with their rank.

[Frank]

Contest Support wrote:

Pip expert is an evaluation factor which is to offset the effects of different gearing used by different contestants in their trading. It takes into account only the pips you gained/lost on a trade, irrespectively of the position size.
As you might have seen from the rules, each pip gained on the “base” EUR/USD trade brings you one point. Pips gained/lost on other currency pairs are adjusted to a common standard according to the pip conversion schedule (see rules). All your gained/lost pips are summed together. This sum is your pips score. Than all traders are sorted by this parameter and the leading 92 receive their “Pip expert” points in accordance with their rank.

Hi Support,
could you show, near Balance, in the Contest standings page and/or in the blog personal page the "sum of pips gained" in a near future ?

Best regards,
Frank

Contest Support

adi wrote:

Hello,

the pip expert chart shows per million trades for the expert points, so please, can you confirm that the total balance of lost and gained pips is calculated the same for both small and big lot sizes, basically calculated irrespective of the lot sizes. Thanks

Contest Support wrote:

Guest wrote:

Hi Support,
I had read the rule and not so understand on the "pip expert" calculation.
Is it related to numbers of trade each month?

Can you quote some calculation example?

Thanks........

Pip expert is an evaluation factor which is to offset the effects of different gearing used by different contestants in their trading. It takes into account only the pips you gained/lost on a trade, irrespectively of the position size.
As you might have seen from the rules, each pip gained on the “base” EUR/USD trade brings you one point. Pips gained/lost on other currency pairs are adjusted to a common standard according to the pip conversion schedule (see rules). All your gained/lost pips are summed together. This sum is your pips score. Than all traders are sorted by this parameter and the leading 92 receive their “Pip expert” points in accordance with their rank.

Position size has no effect on pip expert calculation. Only the number and the final balance of pips gained/lost is important for this parameter.

Contest Support

Frank wrote:

Contest Support wrote:

Pip expert is an evaluation factor which is to offset the effects of different gearing used by different contestants in their trading. It takes into account only the pips you gained/lost on a trade, irrespectively of the position size.
As you might have seen from the rules, each pip gained on the “base” EUR/USD trade brings you one point. Pips gained/lost on other currency pairs are adjusted to a common standard according to the pip conversion schedule (see rules). All your gained/lost pips are summed together. This sum is your pips score. Than all traders are sorted by this parameter and the leading 92 receive their “Pip expert” points in accordance with their rank.

Hi Support,
could you show, near Balance, in the Contest standings page and/or in the blog personal page the "sum of pips gained" in a near future ?

Best regards,
Frank

You are looking straight into the matter. That's exactly what we are going to offer to contestants in the nearest future. The profile page in general will see some changes related to the implementation of statistics. Number of pips gained/lost will be shown as well.

Lambda2 · **User rating:** -

Hello Dukascopy!

First of all congratulations to this great competition!
I read the rules and I have an issue on the evaluation of trader ranks.

My view is that a tade consist of 1. open price, 2. target price 3. stop loss price and 4. lot size.
Unfortunately you take the "pips" as a seperate ranking factor, but why?

When a trader opens a position, the 4 mentioned criteria must be considered as one whole "entity".
Profit/risk analysis determines the lot and the profit/loss possibilities (that are the pips). Why do you take the pips out of this global "entity"?

The pips are already included in the "performance".

If you insist on evaluating pips seperately, then you should evaluate the average lot size seperately, too! The higher the average lot, the more points you get.

In this case you double the performance scores as a matter of fact. But making a double scoring for pips makes little sense to me.

To be concrete, i am currently in the Top 50 as a performer, but only 91st in pips.
What shall I do?
The answer is to open a great number of very low amount trades with high stop and high profit orders for longer terms. If the trade is succesfull, good for me in pips, I make little profit, not my goal, but if I lose, I lose only a little.
This pushes me to open too risky trades just to get the right score for pips.

i think this is not what dukascopy wants.
Therefore I would like to ask Dukascopy to change this rule or tell me why pips are worth taking it into the score twice.

Thanks!

Guest · **User rating:** -

Contest Support wrote:

Guest wrote:

Count it as cancel+new order if you must, but let me EDIT a pending order (you'll even get to keep a meaningful message instead of 'reenter' or 'modified').

We doubt that allowing to edit pending orders will lead to an increase in justifications' soundness. If your reasoning has changed, that signifies that a new order is to be created. One may equally write a more meaningfull message instead of of 'reenter' or 'modified' when creating the updated order.

That's the whole point - the reasoning has not changed, just the exact entry and/or sl/tp level (for example trailing a stop entry which means a new entry and sl level).

Contest Support

Lambda2 wrote:

Hello Dukascopy!

First of all congratulations to this great competition!
I read the rules and I have an issue on the evaluation of trader ranks.

My view is that a tade consist of 1. open price, 2. target price 3. stop loss price and 4. lot size.
Unfortunately you take the "pips" as a seperate ranking factor, but why?

When a trader opens a position, the 4 mentioned criteria must be considered as one whole "entity".
Profit/risk analysis determines the lot and the profit/loss possibilities (that are the pips). Why do you take the pips out of this global "entity"?

The pips are already included in the "performance".

If you insist on evaluating pips seperately, then you should evaluate the average lot size seperately, too! The higher the average lot, the more points you get.

In this case you double the performance scores as a matter of fact. But making a double scoring for pips makes little sense to me.

To be concrete, i am currently in the Top 50 as a performer, but only 91st in pips.
What shall I do?
The answer is to open a great number of very low amount trades with high stop and high profit orders for longer terms. If the trade is succesfull, good for me in pips, I make little profit, not my goal, but if I lose, I lose only a little.
This pushes me to open too risky trades just to get the right score for pips.

i think this is not what dukascopy wants.
Therefore I would like to ask Dukascopy to change this rule or tell me why pips are worth taking it into the score twice.

Thanks!

Thank you for the appreciation of our efforts devoted to the contest.

The evaluation system created by Dukascopy aims at ensuring a balanced approach to traders’ evaluation. We want it to be integral and all-encompassing. The logic behind adding the “Pips expert” as a separate evaluation parameter was to offset the disproportions that might arise because of different lot sizes used by traders. The idea is that if a trader is consistent and successful in his trades, but is conservative in his approach to risk and does not use big lot sizes, he will be able to compensate his moderate equity performance (in comparison to traders using full or close to full leverage) by an outstanding pip performance.

“Pips expert” points are calculated irrespectively of the lost sizes, which allows liquidating the effect of big lots.

The fact that you are in the top-50 by performance, but only 91st by pips signifies that you are using a high gearing, but your pip wins on every trade are not particularly big. In order to improve your “Pip expert” rating you should aim at winning more pips on your trades, irrespectively of the lot size.

We put value not only on pure performance (which can be attained by 100% leverage high risk trades), but on trading consistency. That is why the evaluation system is divided into several categories and takes into account various aspects of your trading behavior.

In the coming days contestants will see a new version of the profile page. It will feature trading statistics, which, we believe, will help to get a better picture of contestant’s trading profile and have a provisional understanding of the Dukascopy expert points one might expect to receive (as these statistics are used in the evaluation).

Lambda · **User rating:** -

[/quote]
Thank you for the appreciation of our efforts devoted to the contest.

The evaluation system created by Dukascopy aims at ensuring a balanced approach to traders’ evaluation. We want it to be integral and all-encompassing. The logic behind adding the “Pips expert” as a separate evaluation parameter was to offset the disproportions that might arise because of different lot sizes used by traders. The idea is that if a trader is consistent and successful in his trades, but is conservative in his approach to risk and does not use big lot sizes, he will be able to compensate his moderate equity performance (in comparison to traders using full or close to full leverage) by an outstanding pip performance.

“Pips expert” points are calculated irrespectively of the lost sizes, which allows liquidating the effect of big lots.

The fact that you are in the top-50 by performance, but only 91st by pips signifies that you are using a high gearing, but your pip wins on every trade are not particularly big. In order to improve your “Pip expert” rating you should aim at winning more pips on your trades, irrespectively of the lot size.

We put value not only on pure performance (which can be attained by 100% leverage high risk trades), but on trading consistency. That is why the evaluation system is divided into several categories and takes into account various aspects of your trading behavior.

In the coming days contestants will see a new version of the profile page. It will feature trading statistics, which, we believe, will help to get a better picture of contestant’s trading profile and have a provisional understanding of the Dukascopy expert points one might expect to receive (as these statistics are used in the evaluation).[/quote]

Hello,

thanx for the quick reply.
Although I fully understand your logic behind your concerns on trading behaviour, I still think the current evaluation system needs to be rethought.

To be concrete:
Using the competition terms : Performance = Sum of (Lot*PIP of each trade).
By taking out PIP as a seperate measured criteria, you force us to concentrate on getting pips instead of performance, because Pips count twice. Once it is part of "performance", secondly it is a seperated criteria. It is "worth" making more pips than making more profit. When I want to buy something from the shop, I prefer getting profit instead of pips

.

My suggestion is, having understood the logic behind measuring pips as a criteria (I absolutely agree that the "donks

" need to be punished), to increase the ratio of performance from 25% to 35% and to decrease pip from 25% to 15%.

In this case you will get a more realistic picture and we will have a more fair evaluation.

What do you think about it?

Guest · **User rating:** -

"

The evaluation system created by Dukascopy aims at ensuring a balanced approach to traders’ evaluation. We want it to be integral and all-encompassing. The logic behind adding the “Pips expert” as a separate evaluation parameter was to offset the disproportions that might arise because of different lot sizes used by traders. The idea is that if a trader is consistent and successful in his trades, but is conservative in his approach to risk and does not use big lot sizes, he will be able to compensate his moderate equity performance (in comparison to traders using full or close to full leverage) by an outstanding pip performance. "

Well, having read this in particular: I hope I do not need to explain that lot size is part of the trade decision!!!
Being using your words "conservative in his approach" is also a trading decision!!!

So again: Why does it make sense to take out some parts of the trading ideas and honour it better?
It is a whole entity.

Let me be concrete: what you force is the following: For the "major" ones like EURUSD, etc. use big lot size with little SL/PT orders to gwt the profit (because they move relatively little).
For minors and crosses like GBPAUD you force us to open little lots and wide SL/PT orders to get the pips (because they move relatively big)

I think to get a good place, this is the best strategy. My problem is what happens when Dukascopy evaluates the performance, and sees this behaviour. Because I want to win, so I am forced to win by the rules. But as it is right now, this is not what you want to get I believe.

Thanks for reading it!!

adis · **User rating:** -

Hello, I have one question with regards to the trading statistics: in the total balance of pips gained and lost is 1 pip counted as the same for all pairs? in other words, is 1 pip on the EUR/NZD pair counted the same as 1 pip on the, for example, EUR/SEK pair? or are these pips recalculated to the basis of EUR/USD? a 1% move on the first pair gives 173 pips while the same move on the second gives us 891 pips, so if I gain 1% on the first and loose 1% on the second with equal lot sizes then I'm still loosing 718 pips.
Best regards

Contest Support wrote:

Lambda2 wrote:

Hello Dukascopy!

First of all congratulations to this great competition!
I read the rules and I have an issue on the evaluation of trader ranks.

My view is that a tade consist of 1. open price, 2. target price 3. stop loss price and 4. lot size.
Unfortunately you take the "pips" as a seperate ranking factor, but why?

When a trader opens a position, the 4 mentioned criteria must be considered as one whole "entity".
Profit/risk analysis determines the lot and the profit/loss possibilities (that are the pips). Why do you take the pips out of this global "entity"?

The pips are already included in the "performance".

If you insist on evaluating pips seperately, then you should evaluate the average lot size seperately, too! The higher the average lot, the more points you get.

In this case you double the performance scores as a matter of fact. But making a double scoring for pips makes little sense to me.

To be concrete, i am currently in the Top 50 as a performer, but only 91st in pips.
What shall I do?
The answer is to open a great number of very low amount trades with high stop and high profit orders for longer terms. If the trade is succesfull, good for me in pips, I make little profit, not my goal, but if I lose, I lose only a little.
This pushes me to open too risky trades just to get the right score for pips.

i think this is not what dukascopy wants.
Therefore I would like to ask Dukascopy to change this rule or tell me why pips are worth taking it into the score twice.

Thanks!

Thank you for the appreciation of our efforts devoted to the contest.

The evaluation system created by Dukascopy aims at ensuring a balanced approach to traders’ evaluation. We want it to be integral and all-encompassing. The logic behind adding the “Pips expert” as a separate evaluation parameter was to offset the disproportions that might arise because of different lot sizes used by traders. The idea is that if a trader is consistent and successful in his trades, but is conservative in his approach to risk and does not use big lot sizes, he will be able to compensate his moderate equity performance (in comparison to traders using full or close to full leverage) by an outstanding pip performance.

“Pips expert” points are calculated irrespectively of the lost sizes, which allows liquidating the effect of big lots.

The fact that you are in the top-50 by performance, but only 91st by pips signifies that you are using a high gearing, but your pip wins on every trade are not particularly big. In order to improve your “Pip expert” rating you should aim at winning more pips on your trades, irrespectively of the lot size.

We put value not only on pure performance (which can be attained by 100% leverage high risk trades), but on trading consistency. That is why the evaluation system is divided into several categories and takes into account various aspects of your trading behavior.

In the coming days contestants will see a new version of the profile page. It will feature trading statistics, which, we believe, will help to get a better picture of contestant’s trading profile and have a provisional understanding of the Dukascopy expert points one might expect to receive (as these statistics are used in the evaluation).

adis · **User rating:** -

Hi, and one more question. shabushabus made 3 transactions this month and gained 142 pips. I tried reconciling this result but simply couldn't. Could you please reconcile (show us the calculation) for these 142 pips on the basis of this example, which I guess is the easiest, since there are only 3 transactions. Thanks.

ps. Congratulations, this is the best forex contest ever, it's fun, good practice and I really appreciate it! Soon you'll have 20k contestants:)

adis wrote:

Hello, I have one question with regards to the trading statistics: in the total balance of pips gained and lost is 1 pip counted as the same for all pairs? in other words, is 1 pip on the EUR/NZD pair counted the same as 1 pip on the, for example, EUR/SEK pair? or are these pips recalculated to the basis of EUR/USD? a 1% move on the first pair gives 173 pips while the same move on the second gives us 891 pips, so if I gain 1% on the first and loose 1% on the second with equal lot sizes then I'm still loosing 718 pips.
Best regards

Contest Support wrote:

Lambda2 wrote:

Hello Dukascopy!

First of all congratulations to this great competition!
I read the rules and I have an issue on the evaluation of trader ranks.

My view is that a tade consist of 1. open price, 2. target price 3. stop loss price and 4. lot size.
Unfortunately you take the "pips" as a seperate ranking factor, but why?

When a trader opens a position, the 4 mentioned criteria must be considered as one whole "entity".
Profit/risk analysis determines the lot and the profit/loss possibilities (that are the pips). Why do you take the pips out of this global "entity"?

The pips are already included in the "performance".

If you insist on evaluating pips seperately, then you should evaluate the average lot size seperately, too! The higher the average lot, the more points you get.

In this case you double the performance scores as a matter of fact. But making a double scoring for pips makes little sense to me.

To be concrete, i am currently in the Top 50 as a performer, but only 91st in pips.
What shall I do?
The answer is to open a great number of very low amount trades with high stop and high profit orders for longer terms. If the trade is succesfull, good for me in pips, I make little profit, not my goal, but if I lose, I lose only a little.
This pushes me to open too risky trades just to get the right score for pips.

i think this is not what dukascopy wants.
Therefore I would like to ask Dukascopy to change this rule or tell me why pips are worth taking it into the score twice.

Thanks!

Thank you for the appreciation of our efforts devoted to the contest.

The evaluation system created by Dukascopy aims at ensuring a balanced approach to traders’ evaluation. We want it to be integral and all-encompassing. The logic behind adding the “Pips expert” as a separate evaluation parameter was to offset the disproportions that might arise because of different lot sizes used by traders. The idea is that if a trader is consistent and successful in his trades, but is conservative in his approach to risk and does not use big lot sizes, he will be able to compensate his moderate equity performance (in comparison to traders using full or close to full leverage) by an outstanding pip performance.

“Pips expert” points are calculated irrespectively of the lost sizes, which allows liquidating the effect of big lots.

The fact that you are in the top-50 by performance, but only 91st by pips signifies that you are using a high gearing, but your pip wins on every trade are not particularly big. In order to improve your “Pip expert” rating you should aim at winning more pips on your trades, irrespectively of the lot size.

We put value not only on pure performance (which can be attained by 100% leverage high risk trades), but on trading consistency. That is why the evaluation system is divided into several categories and takes into account various aspects of your trading behavior.

In the coming days contestants will see a new version of the profile page. It will feature trading statistics, which, we believe, will help to get a better picture of contestant’s trading profile and have a provisional understanding of the Dukascopy expert points one might expect to receive (as these statistics are used in the evaluation).

Erric1 · **User rating:** -

if i may sugest adding one more statistical on traders profile..

win/lose ratio

out of the total numbers of trades (for example 100 trades 50 win 50 loss) to have the same layout as
"Share of positions opened with conditional orders:" and "Share of positions closed by TP/SL:" i.e that nice red-green bar with the percentage of winers and losers..

thanks

p.s in my opinion it is a factor that you may also include on your valuation

[Frank]

Hi Support,
the new statistics in blog page are very useful, they are a very good job.
I should want to underline that the value of "Total pips gained" is different from the algebric sum of all pips (made manually).
For example:
"Total pips gained" for Frank_ = -121
Algebric sum of pips for Frank_ = - 102

"Total pips gained" for DRScone = -18
Algebric sum of pips for DrScone = -8

And so on ...

Is this normal or is there a trouble? If it is normal, why are the two values different ?

Best regards,
Frank

[crito]

the new features on traders' blogs are awesome, well done guys !
It's a really good feelling to take part in a competition where you clearly see that the organization is really focused on making things better for the contest and the contestants !

Congratz!
Barney

Contest Support

Frank wrote:

Hi Support,
the new statistics in blog page are very useful, they are a very good job.
I should want to underline that the value of "Total pips gained" is different from the algebric sum of all pips (made manually).
For example:
"Total pips gained" for Frank_ = -121
Algebric sum of pips for Frank_ = - 102

"Total pips gained" for DRScone = -18
Algebric sum of pips for DrScone = -8

And so on ...

Is this normal or is there a trouble? If it is normal, why are the two values different ?

Best regards,
Frank

Please note that "Total pips gained" parameter of statistics is a number, which already includes all the adjustments made according to the pips conversion schedule (https://www.dukascopy.com/tradercontest/ ... ntestrules) for non-EUR/USD pairs.

In their turn, the pips P/L figures appearing next to every trade are denominated in the base currency of the currency pair. Hence, they need to be adjusted by the respective ratios in order to be comparable with the EUR/USD points (which are the basis ones).

Contest Support

Erric1 wrote:

if i may sugest adding one more statistical on traders profile..

win/lose ratio

out of the total numbers of trades (for example 100 trades 50 win 50 loss) to have the same layout as
"Share of positions opened with conditional orders:" and "Share of positions closed by TP/SL:" i.e that nice red-green bar with the percentage of winers and losers..

thanks

p.s in my opinion it is a factor that you may also include on your valuation

Thank you for your valuable proposal. We will definitely consider it for possible future implementation.

Contest Support

adis wrote:

Hello, I have one question with regards to the trading statistics: in the total balance of pips gained and lost is 1 pip counted as the same for all pairs? in other words, is 1 pip on the EUR/NZD pair counted the same as 1 pip on the, for example, EUR/SEK pair? or are these pips recalculated to the basis of EUR/USD? a 1% move on the first pair gives 173 pips while the same move on the second gives us 891 pips, so if I gain 1% on the first and loose 1% on the second with equal lot sizes then I'm still loosing 718 pips.
Best regards

Contest Support wrote:

Lambda2 wrote:

Hello Dukascopy!

First of all congratulations to this great competition!
I read the rules and I have an issue on the evaluation of trader ranks.

My view is that a tade consist of 1. open price, 2. target price 3. stop loss price and 4. lot size.
Unfortunately you take the "pips" as a seperate ranking factor, but why?

When a trader opens a position, the 4 mentioned criteria must be considered as one whole "entity".
Profit/risk analysis determines the lot and the profit/loss possibilities (that are the pips). Why do you take the pips out of this global "entity"?

The pips are already included in the "performance".

If you insist on evaluating pips seperately, then you should evaluate the average lot size seperately, too! The higher the average lot, the more points you get.

In this case you double the performance scores as a matter of fact. But making a double scoring for pips makes little sense to me.

To be concrete, i am currently in the Top 50 as a performer, but only 91st in pips.
What shall I do?
The answer is to open a great number of very low amount trades with high stop and high profit orders for longer terms. If the trade is succesfull, good for me in pips, I make little profit, not my goal, but if I lose, I lose only a little.
This pushes me to open too risky trades just to get the right score for pips.

i think this is not what dukascopy wants.
Therefore I would like to ask Dukascopy to change this rule or tell me why pips are worth taking it into the score twice.

Thanks!

Thank you for the appreciation of our efforts devoted to the contest.

The evaluation system created by Dukascopy aims at ensuring a balanced approach to traders’ evaluation. We want it to be integral and all-encompassing. The logic behind adding the “Pips expert” as a separate evaluation parameter was to offset the disproportions that might arise because of different lot sizes used by traders. The idea is that if a trader is consistent and successful in his trades, but is conservative in his approach to risk and does not use big lot sizes, he will be able to compensate his moderate equity performance (in comparison to traders using full or close to full leverage) by an outstanding pip performance.

“Pips expert” points are calculated irrespectively of the lost sizes, which allows liquidating the effect of big lots.

The fact that you are in the top-50 by performance, but only 91st by pips signifies that you are using a high gearing, but your pip wins on every trade are not particularly big. In order to improve your “Pip expert” rating you should aim at winning more pips on your trades, irrespectively of the lot size.

We put value not only on pure performance (which can be attained by 100% leverage high risk trades), but on trading consistency. That is why the evaluation system is divided into several categories and takes into account various aspects of your trading behavior.

In the coming days contestants will see a new version of the profile page. It will feature trading statistics, which, we believe, will help to get a better picture of contestant’s trading profile and have a provisional understanding of the Dukascopy expert points one might expect to receive (as these statistics are used in the evaluation).

The differences in the incremental value of 1 pip for different currency pairs are taken into account when converting the pips to the common standard according to the pip conversion schedule (https://www.dukascopy.com/tradercontest/ ... ntestrules). The basic reference standard is a EUR/USD pip. It is worth 1 point. The points for other currency pairs are calculated basing on the ratio of exchange rates in order to maintain the parity.

Guest · **User rating:** -

after clicking the "confirm order", nothing happens.
I can not send the order. In what may be the problem?

cactis · **User rating:** -

My platform is inactive.
ID DEMOAC01wcMIq
thanks

Contest Support

cactis wrote:

My platform is inactive.
ID DEMOAC01wcMIq
thanks

Your account was depleted to the minimum level (100 USD) and was automatically blocked in result. This is a general minimal margin requirement applicable to all Dukascopy accounts. Please see the margin requirements page for more details: https://www.dukascopy.com/swiss/english/ ... ts/margin/

The registration to the February contest will start on the 25th, so you are welcome to have another try next month.